any of my friends have a discord/slack/irc server dedicated to talking about humane software, utopian computing, etc? I don't really want to run yet another server but I will if I can't find one

@clarity @eel I'm starting to think slacks and stuff are kinda bad for actually collaborating. They're too transient, nobody puts enough effort into their posts, things get forgotten.

One of my cults has a whole reddit-like, which is nice. But I think using a topic-specific twitter alt and networking very deliberately and doing medium posts would do quite well, maybe better. Twitter is a good way to make things public while still having quite intentional communities.


@faun I agree that chatrooms are bad for collaboration, but they're the only online spaces which have ever created a genuine sense of a community commons for me, a place in which I can live and be human in. In my experience, reddit and twitter's fundamental structures each intrinsically facilitate different forms of violence (happy to elaborate). I have an early-stages project to make a space that is both community-oriented and collaborative but for now the comunity is most important for me.

@clarity I would have to recommend using twitter in a very different way on these alts.. and might have to insist that other participants get topic-specific alts too. Idk. It'd still be a bit of a mess, yeah.

For a while I've been designing a system that sort of hybridises all of these. But it seems like too much work to make for marginal gains. A more foundational problem seems to be figuring out how to manage one's attention-attachment to any online system in a really healthy way.

@clarity I've gotten a really powerful sense of community from chat groups too.. but I'm starting to realise something big was missing from those systems. One thing was.. "Partial association", something twitter does a lot better, is missing. Everyone is either completely with everyone else all of the time, or completely exiled, there's nothing in between. It's brutal.

I *think* I can see a way to bridge the gap.

@faun my thought is to make most “rooms” more disposable, to encourage regular reorganization and reassociation. Part of that is technological and part is cultural I think

@clarity I was thinking of replacing places or channels with tags. There'd be these huge trees of posts, not really organised, but when someone tags a post it summons the attention of people who're subscribed to that tag, and maybe lists it in that tag's post list.

Applying Tags might be restricted to people who have an associated Qual. Quals are invite-only.

Hm now that I've laid that out this feels fairly complete as a design, to me. Maybe we should do it.

@faun having used something like this, I found it to not be at all what I want because it made it hard to have “front porches”, places without topics but more defined by relationships

@clarity What did you use? I don't think it would be hard to do that. Might require some special explanations to make sure users use it correctly, but for that case.. so..

There'd be a Qual that identifies a certain social group. That group would have a "look" ("look at this") tag that only they were allowed to use. Everyone in the qual would be autosubscribed to this tag. They'd use it often, and they'd all see the conversations associated with it (when they have their mood filters set to)

@clarity Oh also I've been thinking it should use peoples' friend lists to boost friends' posts too. I'm not totally clear on how those would interact yet though.

@faun I used Zulip! I’m off to bed right now but have further thoughts. Here is an old thread of mine that has some context for my thinking.

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