McCLIM seems like such cool software. I'm convinced that what it *really* needs is a designer who can make a rendering layer which is pretty, because the current GUI outputs seem so visually dated, even if it's powerful stuff

@cwebber What would the world be if we had a great way for visual and interaction designers to work with open developers in a way that encouraged mutual appreciation and cross-learning? Bringing in designers after the first wave of code is written is ~always doomed.

@trevorflowers The design of CLIM looks pretty nice on its original home, the 80s lisp machines. It looks crisp, delightful on such machines, ahead of its time even.

On a modern machine not so much. But McCLIM is a port of the old stuff, with *support* for new rendering engines.

@cwebber Some context: I'm pretty familiar with that hardware and the original creators. When I worked in the PARC CS lab I had access to several original LISP machines and worked side-by-side with many of the folks who designed and engineered them. My only real point is that the port would probably be 10x better had visual and interaction designers been involved from day 1 instead of brought in after the fact.

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@cwebber One of the reasons I'm a firm believer in multi-discipline teams is how I saw field researchers, various types of designers, and engineers cross-pollinate at PARC and other labs.

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@cwebber If you're into those old machines then you might be interested in one of my current gigs replicating Alto displays for a museum:
machines.social/@trevorflowers

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